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Post by Geoff on Jul 26, 2009 23:30:36 GMT
The parish of Cumnock holds many secrets and this thread will try to uncover a few. SHOCkWill New Cumnock's history be totally overshadowed by the younger Old Cumnock? wikimapia.org/4124398/gd/A-ChumanagCheers, Geoff xlnewcumnock@hotmail.co.uk
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Post by Geoff on Sept 17, 2009 15:58:55 GMT
St Conval is the patron saint of Cumnock and Nithsdale, so was Connel Burn named after him.
Conval was said to be a student of St Mungo, who in turn was the son of St Enoch, therefore I can see a connection leading to Comenoch. With the Connel springing up from near Enoch Hill, as does the Nith, it seems reasonable that Comenoch is "the confluence of the rivers of Enoch".
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Post by Geoff on Sept 18, 2009 12:09:38 GMT
Was this written about Cumnock before it became New Cumnock or does it refer to Old Cumnock? This would supply a reason for the market moving to Old Cumnock if it was New Cumnock being referred to. THE COVENANTERS: THEIR HOMES, HAUNTS, AND BATTLEFIELDS by A.B.Todd. Chapter 16 www.archive.org/stream/homeshauntsandb00toddgoog/homeshauntsandb00toddgoog_djvu.txtIf they went to Cumnock, a town about twenty miles distant, then that would put them at New Cumnock. Green Braes perhaps or Glaisnock head.
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Post by Geoff on May 29, 2010 11:39:19 GMT
(SHoCk) Secret History of Cumnock [ www.sup.org.uk/newsletters/august09/shock-secret-history-of-cummnock.asp ] There is so much history hidden away in the shadowed glens of Scotland but fragments are slowly coming to light. Glen Afton in Ayrshire seems to have more than most, with records of so many icons listed? William Wallace, Edward I and Edward II, Patrick Dunbar, Robert the Bruce, Mary Queen of Scots, Robert Burns, the heroes and anti-heroes of Scotland. The reason for the glen's popularity? Glen Afton lead to Glen Ken and the south and it was perfect for evasive maneuvers. My question: could New Cumnock have been an important market town into the 16th century? If so, what happened and could it try again 500 years later, the quincentenary of its honour? 500 years ago, on the 27th of September 1509, James Dunbar's Cumnock kirklands in southern Ayrshire were given the honour of being made a burgh of barony. Where were the Cumnock kirklands in 1509: New Cumnock or Old Cumnock? Let me explain. The prefixes New and Old belong to the Kirks of the towns, added after 1610. Old Cumnock is known to have had a market since around 1600 but funnily enough, the settlement doesn't seem to have existed in 1509. (New) Cumnock is much older and home to Cumnock Castle since the 13th century (and probably long before that). Four years after being allowed to hold a market, things changed. The Battle of Flodden, 9th September 1513. In his Caledonia, Chalmers says, "After the disastrous battle of Flodden, many violent acts were committed in Scotland, particularly in the south. In Ayrshire, the strong houses of Cumnock and Uchletree were both violently taken possession of; their owners having fallen on Flodden Field." www.electricscotland.com/history/nation/colville.htm Who owned what? This seems to be another thing hidden in the shadows of the glens. According to Pont's map of Nidisdale (c.1600), New Cumnock was Douglases. The Nithsdale and Kyle border passed below the Castle tower of [New] Cumnock and follows the Achtoun Flu. [Afton Water] west until it nears Monthraw (Afton reservoir) and veers south..This would be an extremely important strategic line for any armed force. Blaeu printed the map in1654: www.nls.uk/maps/atlas/blaeu/page.cfm?id=112William Crichton (1578-1643), 9th Lord Crichton of Sanquhar became Earl of Dumfries and Lord Crichton of Cumnock in 1633. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_of_Dumfries The Crichton family took ownership of Dumfries House estate: Leifnorris, near Cumnock/Auchinleck, Ayrshire in 1635. It was purchased by William Crichton, 1st Earl of Dumfries, the Estate consisting of 'tower, fortresse, mansion place, orchard yards and pertynences'. Early records show that the mansion place, later referred to as Leifnorris House, was situated to the north-west of the present Dumfries House and was in use as a residence by the Crichton family throughout the second half of the 17th Century. www.dumfries-house.org.uk/heritage-history.aspHerman Moll's maps from the early 18th century shows a border following the west side of the Lowther Hills with the whole of the Nith being inside Dumfriesshire (Dumfries or Nithisdale). www.nls.uk/maps/detail.cfm?id=247& www.nls.uk/maps/detail.cfm?id=236[Glenmuckloch farm, east of New Cumnock, has the full name of Glenmuckloch Crichtons and sits beside Crichton Burn on the lower slopes of Corsencon hill on the Dumfriesshire side, just east of the March.] by Geoff
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Post by Geoff on May 29, 2010 12:28:19 GMT
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Post by Geoff on Dec 1, 2010 19:34:40 GMT
[After accompanying his (Edward II's.) father's body for several days southwards, its escort was committed to the Archbishop of York, Edward II., retracing his steps, left Carlisle at the end of July, with the forces destined by his father for the recovery of Scotland. Proceeding up the valley of the Nith, he reached the little town of Cumnock about the second week of August. Near this stood a castle of the Earl of March, where he most likely took up his quarters, and remained till the 25th of that month, when he set out on his return to England. 'By which inglorious retreat, after such mighty preparations for a decisive campaign, he rendered Bruce and his adherents more bold, and disheartened all in Scotland who favoured the English cause.' So says Lord Hailes.] Edited from: www.archive.org/stream/calendarofdocu03grea/calendarofdocu03grea_djvu.txt on 1st December 2010
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Post by Geoff on Sept 11, 2012 13:12:32 GMT
AJ Morton recently added a piece to the local paper, Cumnock Chronicle, on the Plague which hit CUMNOCK in 1597. BUT 'WHICH' CUMNOCK. wikimapia.org/4124398/gd/A-Chumanag(SHoCk) Secret History of Cummnock There is so much history hidden away in the shadowed glens of Scotland but fragments are slowly coming to light. Glen Afton in Ayrshire seems to have more than most, with records of so many icons listed: William Wallace, Edward I and Edward II, Patrick Dunbar, Robert the Bruce, Mary Queen of Scots, Robert Burns. Heroes and anti-heroes of Scotland. The reason for the glen's popularity? Glen Afton led from Kyle Regis to Glen Ken and the south. It was perfect for evasive manoeuvres in times of unrest, especially during the Wars of Independence. Could New Cumnock have been the important market town in the 16th century, not Old Cumnock as we are led to believe? If so, what happened to cover her history and could the town try again, more than 500 years later, the quincentenary of its honour of becoming a burgh of barony? Just over 500 years ago, on the 27th of September 1509, James Dunbar's Cumnock kirklands in southern Ayrshire were given the honour by King James IV, of being made a burgh of barony. But where were the Cumnock kirklands in 1509: New Cumnock or Old Cumnock? Let me explain. The prefixes New and Old belong to the Kirks of the towns, added after 1610. Old Cumnock is known to have had a market since around 1600 but funnily enough, the settlement doesn't seem to have existed in 1509. (New) Cumnock is much older being home to Cumnock Castle since the 13th century (and probably long before that). Four years after being allowed to hold a market, things changed. The Battle of Flodden, 9th September 1513. In his Caledonia, Chalmers says, "After the disastrous battle of Flodden, many violent acts were committed in Scotland, particularly in the south. In Ayrshire, the strong houses of Cumnock and Uchletree were both violently taken possession of; their owners having fallen on Flodden Field." www.electricscotland.com/history/nation/colville.htm [It is so easy for history to change if allowed to, simply by leaving out a word or two. I believe that there was a possibility that kirklands did exist near Cumnock Castle and its settlements. “About the year 1600 two traveling merchants, each with a pack of cloth upon a horse, were dismissed from Ayr and gone Cumnock, and there sold their goods. There followed upon this such a plague in the town that the living were hardly able to bury the dead.” ] familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Old_Cumnock,_Ayr,_Scotland [The peddlers moved on and travelled to Cumnock, a few miles to the east, where the plague unhappily broke out, with fearful loss of life.] www.puritansermons.com/banner/jnwelsh.htmAnd then there’s: ["One day two travelling merchants, each with a pack of cloth upon a horse, came desiring entrance that they might sell their goods, and producing a pass from the magistrates of the town whence they came, which at that time was sound and free. Notwithstanding all this, the sentinels kept them till the magistrates were called, and when they came they would do nothing without their minister's advice. Accordingly Mr. Welsh was called, and his opinion asked. He demurred, and taking off his hat, he stood with his eyes toward heaven for a little while, and though uttering no audible words, continued in a praying posture. He then told the magistrates they would do well to discharge the travellers, affirming, with strong asseveration, that the plague was in their packs. Of course the magistrates commanded them to be gone, and they went to Cumnock, a town about twenty (sixteen) miles distant, and there sold their goods, which kindled such an infection in the place, that the living were hardly able to bury their dead." That there is truth in this narrative, tradition in Cumnock has ever since asserted; and a place called " the green braeheads,'* close to the town, — but never since built upon, — is still pointed out where the humble dwelling of the last victims of the plague (an aged man and wife) stood. Tradition has all along stated that their bodies were left where they died, and that the inhabitants heaped the earth up over them and their house out of fear, and to prevent the infection from spreading again.] www.archive.org/stream/homeshauntsandb00toddgoog/homeshauntsandb00toddgoog_djvu.txt Pages 264 - 265
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